Auļi: ''Folk music ensembles were created in the Soviet Union, but their songs...were censored...distorted so that after time the people no longer knew their true heritage'' Pt.II
Interview with Normunds Vaivads on 90s and 00s music, censorship, traditions and paganism within music and the its importance for society.
Paganism in Latvia is not just a historical curiosity or superstition of the past, but a living and vibrant part of the Latvian cultural identity. The ancient beliefs, rituals, and traditions of paganism are deeply intertwined with the country's history, folklore, and customs. They provide a sense of connection to the land, the seasons, and the cycles of nature that is essential to the Latvian way of life and serves as a counterbalance to the dominant Christian influences that have shaped the country's religious landscape for centuries. By embracing their pagan roots, Latvians are able to reclaim and celebrate their unique heritage, and affirm their independence from external religious influences. Ultimately, paganism in Latvia is not just a set of beliefs or practices, but a way of life that is essential to the cultural and spiritual identity of the Latvian people.
Read the second part of the interview with Normunds Vaivads [Lieutenant Colonel and Chief Medical Officer in the Medical Service of the Joint Headquarters of the National Armed Forces (NAF) in Latvia] from the band Auļi, discussing paganism, music and reflection throughout decades.
Why are Latvians proud and interested in their pagan roots? Do you think that will ever change? Why is it important for the band Auļi to write music about mythology, folklore, military elements and paganism?
Latvians are still strongly influenced by 19th century national romanticism, when Europe was a time of nation-building VS dynastic formations of empire-house poly-national states. At that time, under the influence of primordialism, many historical myths were created to highlight the importance of nations, self-identification by analogy with and in competition with the heroic deeds of the ruling dynasties of empires... often they were scientifically unfounded and with strong political overtones. Culmination for these tendencies were in the end of World War I, when 4 major European empires collapsed and nations gained the right to self-determination, creating states that were then national with a strong baggage of historical myths.
Subsequently, after the Second World War, anthropology and historical scholarship focused not on the mythical feats of the ruling classes (conquests, heroics, etc.); but national cultural accents - how people lived, what were their moral values, everyday life, human cooperation, individual feelings, dreams, longings, responsibilities, family events, neighbourhood work and the annual ritual in nature, in the neighbourhood, the interaction of man and local society in the cycles of nature and life... which were in line with the current issues of self-consciousness and individual identification of S.Freud, C.G.Jung etc…
And the Latvian cultural heritage in Dainas [traditional Latvian poetry and music] and in their singing is directly related to the exploration of the moral and ethical code of the individual, the family, the household in living, in the cyclical processes of nature, in finding one's place and meaning in it and in being part of the order of the Creator of the world... starting with everyday life, everyday life.... and cultural rituals, including songs, dances, allow us to return to the right, natural order, starting with the right emotional, intuitive feeling, attitude towards whatever is happening.
Orig. Latviešiem vēl joprojām spēcīgas ir 19. gadsimta nacionālromantisma ietekmes, kad Eiropā bija nāciju pašapziņas veidošanās laiks vs dinastijas impēriju namu polinacionālo valstu veidojumiem. Tai laikā primordiālisma ietekmē tika veidoti daudzi vēsturiskie mīti , lai izceltu nāciju nozīmību, pašidentifikāciju pēc analoģijas ar impēriju valdošo dinastiju varoņdarbiem, konkurējot ar tiem… bieži tie bija zinātniski nepamatoti un ar spēcīgu politisku pieskaņu. Kulminācija šīm tendencēm bija 1.Pasaules kara beigas, kad sabruka 4 lielas Eiropas impērijas un nācijas ieguva pašnoteikšanās tiesības, izveidojot valstis, kuras tad bija nacionālas ar spēcīgu vēsturisko mītu bagāžu. Pēcāk , jau pēc 2.Pasaules kara antropoloģijā un vēstures zinātnieku fokusā nonāca nevis valdošo slāņu mītiskie varoņdarbi (iekarojumi, varonības etc.), bet tieši tautas kultūras akcenti - kā dzīvoja cilvēki, kādas bija to morālās vērtības , sadzīve, dzīve, cilvēku kooperācija, indivīdu sajūtas, sapņi, ilgas, atbildība, ģimenes norises, apkaimes darbu un gada rita norises dabā, apkaimē, cilvēka un lokālās sabiedrības mijiedarbība dabas un dzīves ciklos… kas saskanēja ar Z.Freida, K.G.Junga etc. pašapziņas un indivīda identifikācijas aktualitātēm…Un latviešu kultūras mantojums Dainās un to izdziedāšanā ir tiešā veidā saistīts ar indivīda, ģimenes, saimes morāli ētiskā koda izzināšanu dzīvošanā , cikliskajās dabas norisēs, savas vietas un nozīmes atrašanā tajā un iekļaušanās pasaules Radītāja kārtībā… sākot jau ar sadzīvi, ikdienu…. un kultūras rituāli , t.sk. dziesmas, dejas ļauj atgriezt pareizo, dabisko kārtību, pirmkārt jau sākot ar pareizo emocionālo , intuitīvo sajūtu , attieksmi pret jebko notiekošo…
When talking about Latvia, what is important for the Latvian audience? Is music inspired by paganism part of Latvia's identity? Is metal and rock music the identity of Latvia at all?
Latvian listeners are different, it must be said that EU DEI's multiculturalism on the one hand dilutes the heritage of local regional ethnic groups, but on the other hand allows it to manifest itself, because in the deepest essence, people in the world have very similar moral and ethical principles... voices of conscience... understanding of the beautiful, right/good and the essential... Consequently, if the essential code is essentially the same, then only the question of its artistic expression and distribution remains. And there is a place for the creative element. Whether it's rock or world music, or metal, or folk, the main thing is the message - what it is, what it causes... Aulis try to perceive the message of the good, right, natural, created by their ancestors, and by creatively arranging it, bring it further . As it has been said in the past - you have to be able to grasp its spiritually intuitive verticality in such a way that by spreading it horizontally in society, a vertical connection is created again for every recipient...
Orig.Latviešu klausītāji ir dažādi, jāsaka, ka EU DEI multikulturālisms no vienas puses izšķaida lokāli reģionālo etnosu mantojumu, bet no otras puses ļauj tam izpausties, jo pašā dziļākajā būtībā pasaulē cilvēkiem ir loti līdzīgi morāli ētiskie principi… sirdsapziņas balsis … sapratne par skaisto, pareizo un būtisko… Līdz ar to , ja pašā būtībā esenciālais kods ir līdzīgs, tad atliek tikai jautajums par tā māksliniecisko izpausmi, izplatīšanu. Un te ir vieta radošajam elementam. Vai tas būtu roks vai world music, vai metal, vai folk, galvenais jau ir tas vēstījums – kas tas ir, ko tas izraisa… Auļi cenšas uztvert savu senču savulaik izveidoto vēstījumu par labo, pareizo, dabisko un radoši to aranžējot, nest to talāk. Kā savulaik ir teikts – ir jāmāk satvert tā garīgi intuitīvā vertikāle tā, lai izplatot to tālāk jau sabiedrībā horizontāli, ikvienam saņēmējam izveidots atkal vertikālā saikne…
Have you ever faced criticism from Latvian institutions, religious institutions/members because of your music? Were you worried about writing music in a folk/pagan style? How did the audience react to you in the 2000s and today? Has the audience changed?
No, we have not directly received any condemnation. Once, at a festival, among the listeners was the Metropolitan of the Riga Archbishop of the Roman Catholic Church in the first row, and we were not sure if we could play our music... but the Catholic Church in Latvia is very inclusive and syncretic, and if there is no idol worship ritual performed, it is able to distinguish the difference from traditions & culture performance as an artistic value, rather than worship of idols...
If we talk about writing music, then, as already mentioned, we give the positive, natural, the beautiful of our ancestors, we don’t carry hatred, aggression and denial, so we have no worries about the creative expression of music... if children react so positively to us, then it nothing can be denied…
About the audience - it's probably the case that the ethical code of the ancestral culture always positively appeals to everyone at any age, as long as they perceive it... if the archetype works, then it manifests itself...
Orig. Nē, tiešā veidā neesam saņēmusi nekādu nosodījumu. Reiz vienā festivālā starp klausītājiem pirmā rindā bija Romas Katoļu baznīcas Rīgas arhibīskaps metropolīts un mums bija neziņa, vai varam tad spēlēt savu mūziku… bet katoļu baznīca Latvijā ir ļoti inkluzīvi sinkrētiska un ja netiek veikts kāds nepārprotams elku kulta rituāls, tad tā spēj atšķirt tradīciju kultūras izpildījumu kā māksliniecisko vērtību no elku pielūgsmes…Ja runā par mūzikas rakstīšanu, tad, kā jau minēts, mēs dodam mūsu senču pozitīvo, dabisko, skaisto, mēs nesējam naidu, agresiju un noliegumu, tāpēc nekādu bažu par mūzikas radošo izpausmi mums nav… ja bērni tik pozitīvi reaģē uz mums , tad tas nevar būt nekas noliedzams…Par auditoriju - tur laikam ir tā, ka senču kultūras ētiskais kods nemainīgi pozitīvi uzrunā ikvienu jebkurā vecumā, ja vien to uztver… ja arhetips nostrādā, tad tas arī izpaužas.
What was the music scene like in the 1990s? Considering the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991, did this event have an impact on you and your music? In 2003, you founded the group. Was there still uncertainty, confusion in music and society after regaining freedom?
The activities of the Latvian folklore movements contributed to the fall of the Soviet Union, which was like a protest for survival of the ethnos by maintaining self-identification against the efforts of the Soviet regime to Russify and sovietize all the Soviet ethnic groups/ethnos, eradicating their cultural traditions, degrading the heritage of their ancestors, in a nuanced way - not by banning, but through allowing them to be profaned, distorted and vulgarized…. Folk music ensembles were created in the Soviet Union, but their songs, performance, dances were censored, changed, distorted so that after time the people no longer knew what was the true heritage and what was a Soviet distortion... The 5th administration of the KGB strictly followed whether there was an anti-Soviet sentiment and tried to introduce an agency network in any organization, making sure that there were no pro-Western, capitalist views... Rock groups were especially strongly targeted, but folklore movement groups did not express capitalism and their existence was legal, but controlled (folklore groups were only allowed to be at Soviet houses of culture, which were controlled KGB, not by themselves).
Therefore, the folklore movement of the 80s of the 20th century with its Latvian cultural and historical heritage flourished strongly even in the 90s, when after the collapse of the Soviet Union there was a strong economic crisis, but ethnic self-confidence played a miraculous role - hearing the rhythms of the ancestors, the music of the ancestors, the code of its message, the Latvian ethnos had such a strong national self-awareness that it was called the nation's Third Awakening. 1990 the people were extremely united on The Barricades, there was an incredible intuitively emotional spirit of elevation and unity, the awareness of the true culture of the people's ancestors released the archetypes and their manifestations. In 2003, enthusiasts who were already involved in folklore groups of the 80s and 90s gathered in Auļi, and Auļi successfully occupied the continuation niche, no longer in folklore, but in its continuation... as world music (at that time we didn't know that term).
Orig.Padomju savienības krišanu veicināja tieši latviešu folkloras kustību aktivitātes, kas bija kā etnosa izdzīvošanas pretestība ar pašidentifikācijas noturēšanu pret padomju režīma centieniem ruisificēt un sovjetizēt visus padomju etnosus, izskaužot to kultūras tradīcijas, degradējot to senču mantojumu, pie tam niansētā veidā – nevis aizliedzot, bet caur atļaušanu tās profanējot, izkropļojot un vulgarizējot…. Padomju savienībā tika veidoti tautas mūzikas ansambļi, bet to dziesmas, izpildījumu, dejas cenzēja, mainīja, sagrozīja tā, ka pēc laika tauta vairs nezinaja, kas ir patiesais mantojums un kas ir padomju izkropļojums… KGB 5.pārvalde stingri sekoja vai pastāv antisovjetisks noskaņojums un centās ieviest aģentūras tīklu jebkādā organizācijā, sekojot, lai nav prorietumnieciski, kapitālistiski uzskati… Īpaši stingri vērsās pret roka grupām, bet folkloras kustības kopas nepauda kapitālismu un to pastāvēšana bija legāla, bet kontrolēta (folkloras grupas drīkstēja būt tikai pie padomju kultūras namiem, ko kontrolēja KGB, nevis pašas par sevi). Līdz ar to 20.gadsimta 80.gadu folkloras kustība ar savu latviešu kultūrvēsturisko mantojumu spēcīgi uzplauka arī 90.gados, kad pēc padomju savienības sabrukuma bija spēcīga saimnieciskā krīze, bet etnosa pašapziņa nospēlēja brīnumainu lomu – dzirdot senču ritmus, senču mūziku, tās vēstījuma kodu, latviešu etnosā bija tik spēcīga nacionālā pašapziņa, ka to nosauca par tautas trešo Atmodu. 1990.g. tauta bija ārkārtīgi vienota uz barikādēm, bija neticams intuitīvi emocionāls pacēluma un vienotības gars, patiesās tautas senču kultūras apzināšanās atbrīvoja arhetipus un to izpausmes. 2003.gadā Auļos sapulcējās entuziasti, kuri jau bija iesaistīti kā 80.g., tā 90. gadu folkloras grupās un Auļi sekmīgi aizņēma turpinājuma nišu jau vairs ne folkloras, bet tās turpinājuma izpausmēs… kā world music (tolaik vēl tādu nosaukumu nezinajām).
Looking back to the 2000s, 2010s and 2024 - what are the biggest changes you see in the music industry and music community in Latvia?
Music is becoming more and more advanced and professional, as well as more technical, for example Dolby Atmos (Auļi recorded their last albums in this format), everyone is becoming more and more knowledgeable about music. Also within cultural heritage, more authentic sounds and their performance instruments are understood, ways of performance, because
i-net communication makes it possible to communicate much more successfully and the exchange of information is much more intensive... International projects have also grown significantly...
Orig.Mūzika kļūst arvien augstāk profesionāla, kā arī tehniskāka, kā piemērs Dolby Atmos (Auļi savus pēdējos albumus ieraksta šai formātā), mūzikā paliek arvien zinošāki, tai skaitā arī kultūras mantojumā, tiek izprasti vairāk autentiskie skaņu un to izpildes instrumenti , izpildes veidi, jo i-net komunikācija ļauj sazināties daudz sekmīgāk un informācijas apmaiņa ir daudz intensīvāka… Ir ievērojami pieauguši arī starpnacionālie projekti…
What is the main goal of your group Auļi, the story? What do you want to tell your listeners?
We do what brings us joy and what we love to do... And we will be together and do it as long as we have a common joy in it... And if you do what brings joy to yourself and others, then you have to believe in it, it has to be done and then everything will work out...it always works out!
Orig.Mēs darām to, kas mums sagādā prieku un ko mums patīk darīt… Un mēs būsim kopā un to darīsim tik ilgi, kamēr mums būs kopīgs prieks par to… Un ja dara to, kas sagādā prieku gan pašiem gan citiem, tad tam ir jātic, tas ir jādara un tad viss arī izdosies… tas vienmēr izdodas!
Do you have a motto? What would you wish for younger generations?
"Life is Auļi !!!" (Auļi - the word has several meanings, it's the buzzing of bees, like the sound of bagpipes, and it's the galloping of horses, like the rhythm of drums, but it's also the name of the group, and we energetically and determinedly go into challenges, projects like galloping with horses).
We wish you to believe in yourself, believe in what you are doing, if you feel that it is good and you will succeed!
Orig.“Dzīve ir Auļi !!!” (auļi – vārdam ir vairākas nozīmes, tā ir bišu sanēšana, kā dūdu skaņas, un tā ir zirgu auļošana, kā bungu ritms, bet tas ir arī grupas nosaukums, un mēs sparīgi un apņēmīgi dodamies izaicinājumos, projektos kā auļodami ar zirgiem)…
Novēlam ticēt sev, ticēt tam, ko darāt, ja jūtat, ka tas ir labi un jums viss izdosies!